Japanese Hip Hop History with the "King of Diggin'": An Interview with DJ Muro
DJ Muro [@dj_muro], an influential figure in Japanese hip-hop, found early inspiration in the anime Devilman by Go Nagai, which ignited his passion for music. His musical journey began with the simple pleasure of listening to anime theme songs on flexi discs obtained from his parents' petrol station.
During his middle school years, Muro stumbled upon hip-hop while attending a local roller skate rink. It was there that he encountered tracks by artists like Afrika Bambaataa and Grandmaster Flash, sparking his fascination with the genre. This newfound interest led him to explore hip-hop’s vibrant culture further.
Known as the "King of Diggin' ", Muro became a trailblazer in Japanese hip-hop. He played a pivotal role in developing Udagawacho in Shibuya, a hub known as "Cisco Zaka" where record lovers, hip-hop enthusiasts, and B-boys congregated. Additionally, Muro opened a hip-hop select shop called Savage in Udagawacho, further enriching the area's cultural scene.
Muro's dedication to spreading hip-hop culture and sampling has made a significant impact on the music world. His story serves as a testament to the transformative power of music and the importance of cultural exchange in shaping artistic movements. Through his contributions, Muro has left an indelible mark on Japanese hip-hop and beyond.
sabukaru met the mastermind DJ himself to talk about his journey into hip-hop culture, digging vinyls, trips to New York, and his impact on the Japanese hip-hop scene.
Hello, thanks for sitting down with us. For those who may not know you, can you introduce yourself to the sabukaru network?
Well, being a DJ has become my main career now, but I also work as a producer. Next year, I think I’ll be working on producing projects a lot more than DJing.
How do you end up with the nickname “King of Diggin’”?
Oh, let’s see… it was around 1990, when I was in a group called Microphone Pager. We had a manager named Okada-san, he was the one who came up with the name King of Diggin’ because I would come up with my own mixes I thought were interesting. We listened to them together and then we would discuss what the title should be after it was completed. At the time, there weren’t really any cool mixes like that around yet.
Is it true that your love for records started with the 70’s era anime series, Devilman?
Rather than just the anime Devilman, the real source of my inspiration is the mangaka behind it, Gō Nagai. Aside from Devilman, his other works were an integral part of me when I was growing up. Some of his works can be pretty erotic, so…[Laughs]
All of that included, I also really enjoyed the soundtracks of his anime; Mazinger Z was another good one. Also, I started collecting records because I liked the soundtracks too, so really what inspired my interest in collecting records was the Devilman soundtrack… that’s when I was still in elementary school.
When you first fell in love with records, you were too young to get into clubs; however, another option for you was to attend local roller skate rinks. Can you paint a picture for the audience of what that was like – from the type of music played to the kinds of people that attended?
Yes, there was a roller skate rink in Itabashi called Roller In Tokyo. It had a music selection that would put any disco club to shame. I’d go there to check out what new songs were playing. Whenever I found something I liked, I would go to a rental record shop and take it home to record it onto a tape myself. That started around my first year of middle school and remained a favorite routine of mine until about 10th grade. I learned so much about music that way, it really was an enriching experience.
At the time, were there quite a few roller skating rinks where people would DJ in Tokyo?
Well, there was a rink in Nishi-arai and another around Kōrakuen… so there were a total of three. The one in Nishi-arai also had DJs but the one in Itabashi was the best of them all, the DJing was more “real” because people took it seriously.
What kind of songs were DJs playing at the time? What type of adults were gathering in that space?
Well, this skate rink was the first place I ever listened to rap; they played artists like Grandmaster Flash and Afrika Bambaataa. In the middle of the rink there were often break dancers practicing their moves. This was an era when this kind of scene was a common occurrence, it still leaves an impression on me today.
Skate rinks must’ve been a place where a lot of the coolest people around would gather?
Yes, it sure was… I heard that Chara also hung out there often. By the way, she’s my senpai.
From your memory, was there a specific moment that made you want to become a DJ?
I wanted initially to produce some kind of “space”...just somewhere that would bring people together by entertaining them and giving them joy. The roller skating rink was that kind of place to me, and just like a club people would stop having fun if the music suddenly stopped.
At the time, there was something called “cheek time” [a dance where young couples would dance closely “cheek to cheek” to slow-tempo music]. I think this current generation is really lacking that kind of thing.
Your first mix involved just a turntable, a tape player, and rented records. How did you develop your skills with limited resources?
I had this thing called a “modular stereo” at home, with a double deck that I could play two cassette tapes at the same time. I just set a record player on top like “Wham!”-- my setup allowed me to record stuff off the record player as well.
Then, from that tape I could record other tapes as well, making multiple copies. Coincidentally, when I’d press the “play” buttons on two cassette tapes at the same time, the two songs would play overlapping each other. That’s when I thought, “Damn! I can remix this!” That’s how I began making my own mixes, playing around with cassette tapes. Also, Zeebra was doing the same thing; we got along over stuff like that, being the same age and all. TWIGGY has always liked doing that too. But at the time, it was just Zeebra and me doing it together.
So, after that you started purchasing higher quality equipment and elevating your setup?
Yes, it wasn’t like now where there’s all kinds of equipment with different functions combined into one piece of technology. Back then, I bought one thing and kept using it for over two years, something cheap that wouldn’t work smoothly all the time or let you change the pitch. I’d make my mixes by doing my own record cuts too.
Since I couldn’t really buy records, my main sources were rental record shops. In comparison, cassette tapes were [a big improvement from records]. Since the records were only rented, I couldn’t really mess around with them much because I couldn’t scratch them. But cassettes, I could really get messy with them.
Eventually, I got a part time job and started buying my own records but I still didn’t really have a good source for new information [pre-Internet]. That’s when a friend told me, “Hey, there’s someone up to the same stuff as you these days in Harajuku’s hokoten, check it out!”
So of course I went, and I saw people there like DJ Krush. I began going there every single week after that. At the time, I had a buff, strong build so people seemed to remember me very quickly and would even approach me to talk about my interest in records and DJing.
It just so happened that many people didn’t have a driver’s license; and since I had just gotten mine that year, I had so much fun driving other people around, taking them from place to place. While I would drive them, I loved to play my own demo tapes for them to listen to, trying to appeal to them; I got hooked up to some new connections through that.
When you purchased your first mixer, the seller mentioned another person in Harajuku doing similar things, who turned out to be the now-legendary DJ Krush. Can you share memories from that experience and how it led to your connection with him?
Ah, yes…I’ve always been a big fan of ICE-T, I was really inspired by him at the time, and DJ Krush just so happened to look exactly like ICE-T back then. [Laughs] His whole appearance, with the hunting cap on backwards and everything. On top of that, Krush had a younger brother who looked exactly like him, and they would DJ as a pair back then. I was astounded… I thought, “I can’t believe there’s Japanese guys as cool as this! And they’re even DJing as a sibling duo!”
After that, I frequented that place every single week, as if I were possessed. Also, there was a shop in Shibuya called PACO that specialized in selling DJ equipment, so pretty much everyone bought their equipment there. Through the shop, I would get introduced to a lot of important people.
[sabukaru shows a video of DJ Muro performing in KRUSH Posse on the Japanese TV show House Energy:]
[DJ Muro’s Response to the video above]
Wow, it’s House Energy……how nostalgic! [Laughs]
This “3 DJ” style was very rare at the time, too. I was really intrigued by that…although B-Fresh was [a 3 DJ unit] too. Alright, I remember it all, and I’m feeling embarrassed now so you can stop the video. [Laughs] I was on a couple national TV shows like House Energy, I recall performing the song “Chain Gang” on the other channel…
You guys formed Krush Posse in 1987 along with DJ Go, however you played the role of MC, thus representing some of the earliest Japanese rapping. Can you share insights into how you took on that role, which differed from DJ Krush and DJ Go, who were DJs in the crew?
[Laughs] Well, what I really wanted to do was DJ, but the huge DMC trend was gaining traction at the time, so there was an explosive increase in the number of DJs around that year. Since Krush and Go were both already DJing, I was urged to take on rapping, since it wouldn’t be interesting if I just did the same thing as the two of them.
I resisted of course! But then, Krush suddenly began scribbling on a piece of paper, handed it to me, and said “Just try and sing a bit of this.”
Recently, I brought this memory up with Krush and he said he totally forgot about it. Anyway, once I tried rapping the lyrics he had just come up with out of the blue, he was really into it and said let’s keep this up! After that, I started rapping in contests too. That’s how it all began.
We spoke to the J hip-hop label Major Force last month. Looking back, what lasting impact do you believe Major Force had on the Japanese music landscape and introducing hip-hop to a wider audience?
At the time, there really was only Major Force as a major music label specializing in rap. Aside from that, there was also Masahiko “Monchi” Tanaka from M.I.D.K’s label, and there was a guy named Marvin but that’s about all I can think of. At the time it was either Major Force or labels that were more focused on disco-style.
So then, as Krush Posse we’d go around handing out our demo tapes and that got us some work with Major Force.
Back then, was there any kind of “philosophy of rap” that older people in the scene/adults felt should be passed on to the next generation?
No, not really anything like that…because the genre was solidified yet, in terms of defining what “cool” is, even for us at the time too. All we were focused on was making something cool, and putting our blood, sweat, and tears into it. We weren’t thinking deeply about anything outside of that.
I mean, there weren’t that many people doing such things yet, so for us, it really was just doing it for the sake of feeling good. Maybe it’s not the so-called “norm”, but we wanted to embody a rap group that is purely only doing it for fun, and to communicate it to others as well; that’s what kind of image Go and I wanted to maintain as we worked together.
Did you imagine back in the day, you’d continue on to be fully involved in rap and even have a fruitful career around it in your 40s and 50s?
Even in my youth, I imagined that I’d probably never be able to leave this world or fully give it up, that’s for sure.
Lord Finesse, a respected producers/MC “The Golden Age of Hip-Hop” was one of the first Americans to reach out to you during your trip to the States in '95. How did this collaboration come about?
I’ve never actually lived in America, but…I guess around ‘95, or maybe ‘96? I simply was obsessed with Lord Finesse. There was a famous record convention at the Roosevelt Hotel; I’d heard that there would be a lot of record producers and popular DJs there, so I took a ton of my demo tapes there to hand them out. I was able to give Lord Finesse one of my tapes and our relationship started from there.
What was it about Lord Finesse that drew you in so much?
I mean, everything about him was beyond cool: he was a multi-talented person, his rapping, DJing, producing…definitely the coolest of the cool. After sharing my demo tape with him, our relationship extended into a shared appreciation for fashion as well; Japan didn’t really have much of the stuff I was into. Streetwear wasn’t so accessible in clothing stores [as it is now]. The sizing was limited too, brands didn’t really make XL sizes yet; so when I’d buy some streetwear or XL shirts in New York and bring it back to Japan, that stuff sold like crazy. It was just that kind of time.
Every month or so I’d go to New York for about three nights and five days [Laughs]. When I’d go to New York, I’d hand out my demo tapes as much as possible while making numerous connections through that, even getting invited to hang out at some people’s houses sometimes, or I traded records with people. It was often an exchange of valuable information and lessons about the industry.
I’m sure your connections and relationships among fellow artists and DJs expanded greatly since the early days, but was there any initial moment or memory that stood out to you, like a “Wow!” moment?
I was definitely “wowed” all the time…like by people such as Lord Finesse, or members and friends surrounding D.I.T.C… it was the people I was hanging around who were really shining bright in my eyes, like there was a light beaming from them. I collected records with passion like my life depended on it and I would hang around clothing shops in New York, hoping that I could run into inspirational people like that, even if they were located in rather risky or dangerous neighborhoods.
Lord Finesse was in a group called Diggin’ in the Crates [D.I.T.C for short], what was his reaction when he met someone with the nickname “King of Diggin’”?
D.I.T.C. conveys the message of “to dig for something”, and…in a way, I wanted that philosophy to be passed down to the next generation and beyond. To dig deep for something you’re after, you know—to really work hard for something. I wanted to show people, “this is how hip-hop is created!” That’s what made it all so purely fun for me.
Vinyl collectors often enjoy the thrill of hunting for rare or unique records. Can you share a memorable experience of discovering a hidden gem?
I have countless episodes like that [Laughs]. In Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania, there’s a record store called Jerry’s. I had a friend named K-Prince who’d been working there for many years; he was Japanese, and we’d often communicate through fax or by phone, before we had even met each other in person! So when I was finally able to visit the store for the first time, it meant the world to me, I was so moved.
Jerry’s is one of the top three largest record shops in the whole world… I’m not sure, maybe it’s closed now? I heard a few years ago that the owner had fallen ill, and that it was in danger of being shut down… I wonder if it’s still open.
*Editor’s Note: Jerry’s is still in operation.
How do you approach building and curating your vinyl collection? Are there specific genres or artists that you prioritize?
As of five or so years ago, I’ve been hosting a radio station, and each week we choose a different theme for it… lately I go to record stores to check out if there’s anything that fits into that week’s theme.
Before that though, I would dig around record stores far and wide, through every range of genres possible. Any time there was a specific theme decided, like “There’s an event based on this genre next week,” that’s when I’d search for something that specifically fit into that category. I still do that.
Many DJs, such as Clark Kent and the late DJ AM, are recognized not only for their vinyl collections but also for their passion for sneakers. You’re also known for this intersection of interests too. What is the connection between DJs and sneaker collecting that makes them complementary pursuits?
Back then, there were many, many, connections. We’d carefully examine things like the condition of the shoes, the upkeep, whether they’re secondhand or not, whether everybody is wearing them or not, things like that. At the end of the day, the biggest similarity is that we are all searching hard for something we really want. Even when I went to New York, I would scour the local sports shops for rare types of sneakers.
Can you paint a picture of the early record scene in Tokyo, particularly in the Udagawacho area of Shibuya. Did you face any challenge finding the music you were looking for?
Ah, yes. It was definitely a village. You’d take a step forward and run into one record shop after another. There’d be multiple record shops in a single building, and I could spend a whole day there just going ‘round and ‘round every store; it was more fun than you could imagine. Every time a friend would visit from overseas, I’d take them there to show them around.
When you were “digging” for records, was there ever a time when you couldn’t find the exact song or album you were hoping to find?
Yes… one time, there was this one record I was looking everywhere for and finally found at a shop called Wax Trax! Records; the girl in line at the cash register, her name was Andy, was clutching the very album I was looking for! I was like, “Oh my god!”, I’ve never seen this before, and I followed her all the way to a different shop called Manhattan Records. I stopped her and said, “Hey, is it alright if I take a look at the record that’s in your bag?”
She just so happened to recognize me, like “Woah! You’re MURO, right?”
I don’t ever chase after people like that, but…[Laughs] We decided to make a trade, so I gave her one of the records I had, and she gave me the one she had just bought… man, I wonder how she’s doing now, I’d love to meet her! [Laughs]
By the way, that album was Ain’t No Half Steppin by Big Daddy Kane. It was a single, but an extremely rare remix version that had only released promotional records. Seki-san, the worker at Wax Trax!, had told me he had it in stock, so it was a huge surprise when I went to get it and Andy had already gotten her hands on it! [Laughs]
The area known as “Cisco-zaka”, in Udagawachō, has been a popular place and iconic landmark within hip-hop culture in Japan. For anyone who isn’t familiar with Cisco-zaka’s culture, can you explain what kind of place it is, in your own view?
Hmm, it’s pretty much one big bridge, and when you explore it, there’s famous shops like Go Around, Face Records, and Cisco. Cisco and Manhattan Records were the two biggest shops there, and it was kind of fun comparing what records one shop might have, while the other doesn’t, and vice versa.
During the period I was visiting there, a shop called D.M.R. was newly built, too… but the first two were definitely the biggest, considering how the nickname of the area became “Cisco-zaka”. Manhattan’s existence was an integral part, too… so, an extremely valuable driving force within hip-hop culture was born from that area.
Hip-hop is now a very lucrative business; how did you feel witnessing something you dedicated your life to becoming appealing to mass audiences?
It fills me with nothing but joy. I can see how far it’s come, becoming accepted into so many more peoples’ lives, gaining a certain kind of higher status within society. It’s affected people in a way that has allowed even newer things to be born out of the original culture, I find that wonderful… I think it’s wonderful seeing it grow and to have so many different things existing simultaneously… it really boils down to that. Lots of cool things are existing harmoniously, and I think it’s wonderful.
Were there any moments when you thought, “Wow, hip-hop has even reached this far!”?
In this day and age, anyone knows what “rap” is, and anyone recognizes the word “hip-hop”, even my own mother! That shows how far it’s come, and I love that.
Is there anything you’ve noticed or felt, in terms of the growth in popularity of “DJ MURO”, or anything about your place in hip-hop history?
Not exactly… even my title as a DJ, it just kind of came about when I first made an Instagram, you know, as a business account of sorts. “Muro” wasn’t available, but “DJ Muro” was, so I took on that username, since I was DJing around then anyway. I wasn’t thinking much of it, but that title just kind of stuck.
There wasn’t really anyone around who was mixing around lots of genres within the realm of hip-hop, so in a way, I do think that I’m leaving behind some of my good DNA.
Your contributions have had a significant impact on the music scene. How do you hope to be remembered within the context of DJ culture, and what legacy do you aspire to leave behind?
[Laughs] I simply want to be remembered as something like a “record-ojisan.” Well, I can’t really talk about this yet, but next spring, P-VINE is going to make a vinyl record pressing factory in Kawaguchi, Saitama, the hometown I was born in.
I never would’ve thought that records would be born in the same city I was! Maybe I should go back home and be a record maker in the factory myself? [Laughs] So next year, it’s gonna be a true dream come true.
For anyone just starting out with collecting records, do you have any advice as the King of Diggin’?
When I go out beyond Tokyo into the other prefectures, I can still get a hold of neat demo tapes to listen to… I think there’s a lot of tight stuff that young people are mixing by themselves these days, Korean, Thai music... I think there’s been a lot of growth among Asian genres, especially. I also think it’s super interesting how city pop went through a huge wave of popularity recently.
I’d recommend to first just go to a record shop, and to really get to know it. Don’t just look at the records, strike up a conversation with the shop staff and get deep into it. I was afraid at first, too… sure, it’s not really a place where you can listen to any record for as long as you please, so I proceeded with caution in the beginning… Back then, you couldn’t just handle the records yourself, the shop staff would have to come and drop the needle for you. But I really enjoyed that aspect; the tension in the air and my own nervousness made the experience all the more special.
Does your daughter have any particular music tastes or preferences?
Not quite yet, but… right now, she just so happens to be the same as me, getting into theme songs of [anime], that kind of thing.
Do you have any last words that you would like to share with our sabukaru audience?
Ultimately, I really just want to share the fun and joy of vinyl records. Just yesterday, I was speaking to a couple I ran into about records. The wife said that if it’s a CD, she can stop the music without any hesitation, but if a record is playing, she dare not touch it, so as not to interrupt the music. It’s something that feels good, something that just flows.
Their child is about 8 or 9 now, and they’re growing up on the sound of vinyl records. It’s simple, I just want people to have a fun experience. I want anybody and everybody to pick up a record.
Introduction by Abe Selassie [@abeselassie]
Transcription by Amity Miyabi [@amitymiyabi]
Interview by Abe Selassie [@abeselassie] and Shiho Watanabe [@shiho_watanabe]
Edited by Ora Margolis [@o.racle_] and Mark Gilcher [@youdontknowmarkman]
Photography by Saffron Liberty [@saffronliberty]
Layout by Mark Gilcher [@youdontknowmarkman]
