Exploring the Sony Soundscape – An Interview with Derrick Espino

Many of us have been brought up with the wonders of video games. A lot of special memories were made sitting around a TV screen with friends, snacks at the ready playing split screen or staying awake till ungodly hours burning our retinas as we were bewildered by the undiscovered joys of one of our latest digital adventures.

Video games act as a temporary escape, an unexplored adventure, and a different momentary life which has unbound potential. Regardless of the stigma which is thankfully starting to fade related to gaming, this pastime is undeniably one of the most inspiring and captivating hobbies that we are thankful for growing up with dedicating our adolescence to mastering.

Iconic start up sound of Sony Playstation 1

But what makes video games so memorable and enjoyable to countless people around the world? Is it the gripping stories that keep our eyes peeled on the screen, the palm-sweating tension that they are able to build up inside us, the endorphin hits that set our brains ablaze every time we achieve a new feat, or the tantalizing immersion that truly puts ourselves into the shoes of our favourite heroes? Well, it is undeniably all of the above, but there is one factor that many brush under the rug even though without it, all other factors would lie flat. We are talking about the sound design and incredibly deep efforts that go into each and every aspect of the audio of our most beloved titles.

Crash Bandicoot sound effect

Think back to your most nostalgic memories with video games and we guarantee that some that are on the top of your list are startup sounds of consoles, a boss theme tune, a character’s quirky sound effect when they are damaged, or a sound queue that still rings in your head today as if it was being transfused into your very eardrum. Sound design is the unsung hero of video games, and although seemingly simple, the levels of depth that the sensation of sound goes are unprecedented.

Dark Souls famous sound effect after the character dies

Without sound, video games become 2 dimensional; regardless of if you’re playing the most recent blockbuster game with stellar 3D graphics and smooth as butter controls, without great sound design to compliment the story and gameplay then it is nothing but moving pixels. Sound adds emotion, immersion, and atmosphere, and that’s without even diving into the cognitive elements it involves such as sound queues helping the players with subconscious decision making.

Some of the best games to ever utilise sound stem from none other than tech giant, Sony, and their paragon gaming console series, the PlayStation. Not only do titles such as Metal Gear, God of War, Bloodborne, and The Last of Us consist of some of the best stories and game mechanics to bless our TV screens, they also provide some of the most exquisite sound design that is worldwide credited for its engineering. If you don’t believe us, we would bet money that each and every one of you if you have ever picked up a gaming pad can recite the iconic sound Crash Bandicoot makes when he is damaged.

The scary clicker sound effect

This is the true power of sound. It subconsciously creates memories and delivers them back to us in full nostalgia force when revisited. Although these memories may fade, as soon as you hear these sounds again, for instance, the legendary PlayStation 1 and 2 start-up sounds, a sea of happy times come flooding back to us in a state of euphoric, Cheeto and Coca-Cola-induced drunkenness.

So, if sound is so important and deep, how is it actually manifested? Many find the gaming industry extremely ambiguous, and although many look towards jobs in this sector with wide eyes, much are left disappointed as it's such a hard place to get their foot in the door. Luckily, on a cold night in Tokyo and after one too many Asahi’s at one of our favourite spots in Tokyo, Beatcafe, we happened to stumble across Derrick Espino, an astounding and proven sound designer for Sony. Derrick has helped create countless iconic sounds in some of the best titles, including the Clicker sound in The Last of Us and the beloved Trico from The Last Guardian.

“Literally just ambient Trico noises”!

Hearing his stories inspired us, opening our minds into what truly goes into the sound we hear when punching away at the control pad. From using his own pets and manipulating the sound to using his own voice as the glue to create one the voice of PlayStations most iconic animals, his audible universe is vast, creative, playful, and diverse. 

We are delighted to have sat down with Derrick to talk about his journey in the industry, his process of engineering these legendary sounds, using the most bizarre and random starting points, and his personal opinion of the wonderful world of video games. Join us as we explore the Sony soundscape and get a view into the mind of one of gaming's most creative sound designers. 

First of all, thank you so much for taking the time to talk to our network. Could you first start by introducing yourself and telling us a little bit about what you do?

Hi, my name is Derrick Espino and I’m a video game sound designer for Sony Interactive Entertainment.

Derrick Espino

How did you find yourself getting into the gaming industry? 

When I first got into the world of sound design I wanted to make sound for films. I played games and they certainly looked like fun to make but it wasn’t something I ever imagined I would be doing professionally. So, the film industry is where I got my start. While interning at a post-production studio in Los Angeles, I met  Andrew Bracken, a sound editor,  who had just been offered a job with Sony, San Diego. At the time, Sony was looking to hire additional sound designers so he suggested I apply for a position. While my heart at the time was still in film, making games for Sony seemed like an opportunity I couldn't pass up, so I accepted a position as a short time contractor. After working on a couple projects, Sony offered me a full-time job. 

Did you specifically study for sound design or did coming into this line of work happen organically?

I’ve always had a fascination with sound since I was a kid. From the age of about six I would “borrow” my mom’s tape recorder and make recordings of T.V. shows, my brothers and I goofing around - you name it. That fascination continued into my teen years when I started recording my own music, and working with multitrack recorders in my bedroom.  When I was looking to study sound formally, there weren’t any film sound design specific programs available - or, at least none that I was aware of. So I decided to enroll in an audio engineering program for music, which I figured was the best place to start. From there I learned everything from how to make my own instrument cables to how to mix sound for a live band.  During my final term, I took an internship with Ann Kroeber (Sound Effects Recordist for David Lynch’s Dune and Blue Velvet), at a studio in Berkley California called Sound Mountain and within a short time I went from intern to editor on my first film. Everything just grew from there. 

Derrick Espino wins the 2014 D.I.C.E Awards

This a broad question, but what does a video game sound designer actually do on a day to day when working on a title?

It depends on where we're at in the development cycle. Pre-production, for example, is a time when I get to explore the ways in which to bring the story to life with sound design. Personally I find this stage really exciting because I just love field recording- gathering sound effects in the real world with a microphone and a portable recorder. It's also the time when I really try to envision what the game will be sonically, so a lot of research takes place during this time- like watching films, playing and listening to games, and thinking of ways in which we can push our craft forward creatively an technically.. If I’m a creative lead on a game like I was on Demon's Souls I'm spending time with the director, watching gameplay, and making notes on how to help them realize their vision. It all depends - you can do a million things as a sound designer. 

Many people want to get into the gaming industry, but we can imagine that it's super competitive. What advice would you give to someone who is looking to get their foot in the door?

It may have changed over the years,  but when I was younger, we could just phone people up. You could actually get jobs that way. There seems to be this sense with younger people today that this sort of thing is not possible anymore, but I disagree, especially now that we have social media. You can comment on someone’s twitter post and easily start a conversation with prospective employers or even people you admire. This ease of connection was inconceivable when I was starting out, and I think making those connections is something that you can't overlook because these are people that you're going to potentially work for…

Ben Burrt talks about the sound design of lightsaber

As far as preparing oneself to enter such a competitive industry, I would say you need to be passionate and show a willingness to learn all you can about your area of interest. I remember when I was still an art student I would print out interviews of famous sound designers and then pour over those on my commute home, gleaning as much information as I could - (this was in the days before smartphones).  There was a time not long ago when learning this stuff required a room full of expensive equipment, whereas these days with a basic laptop and some free digital audio software anyone could start learning sound design at home.

I also feel that cultivating a strong focus on your goal is crucial to one’s success in this business. As a student, one way I kept motivated was I’d have VHS copies of both Star Wars and Raiders of the Lost Ark (two films with legendary soundtracks),  playing in a continuous loop anytime I was at home. Everytime I looked up and saw those films or heard those sounds I would say ‘that's the kind of work I’m gonna make one day’ and this would encourage me to keep going. 

We’ve read you originally wants to be an illustrator. What made you change paths and become more involved with the sound rather than visuals?

As I alluded to previously, I loved playing with tape recorders as a kid and movies like Star Wars with its fantastic sound effects, by Ben Burtt, just lit up the imaginations of many kids from my generation-  those sounds were just so unique and really magical.  But the idea to do that professionally seemed like only a dream honestly. I have been drawing and creating visual art since I can remember, so I decided a safer route in achieving my dream of filmmaking was to follow a more traditional art path. When I enrolled in art school I went with the intention of studying illustration to become an animator but upon arriving I saw all these other departments and creative disciplines, you know. I saw the photography department and film department and seeing that in one place was a revelation- ‘oh, I can learn anything I want’ and it just made those dreams come back to the front of my mind and I realized how I really love sound so much. I guess It's a deep part of me because I'm a musician, it just was another part of my personality that was very natural…

A clicker from The Last of Us

When I was in school and was supposed to be drawing the nude model, or sculpting a head out of clay, I found myself constantly daydreaming about audio gear, synthesizers - things like that. In my mind, I thought ‘well, one day I'll get a job as an animator at Disney, and I'll have enough money to buy a synthesizer.' Then it just dawned on me, why don't I just quit animation and be a sound designer and then I can just work with all that cool equipment? So that’s when I switched schools to study audio engineering. 

The sound and the music of The last of us, with Bruce Straley and Derrick Espino

The list of games you have worked on is incredible. Everything from new blockbusters such as God of War to now-classics such as Uncharted. As someone with so much history in the industry, what still excites you about the industry?

That the technology is constantly improving. I remember being a kid and seeing the first Playstation 1 games and being blown away by the storytelling and the art and thinking, “This is great! It’s only gonna get better and better.” That’s proven to be true as we’ve come so far since those days.  Games still have the power to not only entertain but really transport you away from your concerns of the world. 

When I first got the job with Sony there was something in my mind about it that felt like ‘what I’m doing making Games? Shouldn’t I be out there curing cancer or something?’ In the grand scheme of things I just found myself often wondering,  ‘what am I doing? Is this worth it? Am I serving humanity?’

Traile of John Carpenter’s The Thing, of the work that mostly inspired Derrick Espino

I was having lunch with a colleague one day, telling him about these thoughts and he goes ‘you know what man, some people, this is all they got. There are some people out there who can't even leave their beds or their hospital rooms, and sometimes, the games that you make are the only things they have- the only connection to the outside world.’  I was happy to hear this because It made me realize that games could give you a window to the outside world or a window to a fantasy world. I mean look what we just went through with the pandemic. I think games CAN save people's lives. I'm not trying to build myself up or say what we do is great, but I've met people that have walked up to me and cried because of The Last Guardian or the way they felt playing The Last of Us. That means a lot to me. With all the advancements in spatial audio and VR I foresee games continuing to expand people's quality of life for those who could benefit from it.

Are you a gamer yourself and if so, what are some of your favorite titles and why?

You know, what's funny is I never considered myself a gamer because there were so many other people around me that were so obviously more obsessed with games than I was, but recently I looked back and I’ve changed my mind. I’ve been playing Red Dead Redemption 2 for the last four years since it was released, (mostly online), and I’ve been very vocal about how much I love that game. It does a fantastic job of creating a very fleshed out and believable world- almost like having a second life. Brilliant art design, sound, and of course the storytelling and acting are just incredible. 

Discs of Tron gameplay run

As a child of the 80’s games were huge. I loved arcades and I would spend hours playing the gaming cabinets or pinball machines - sometimes I would just walk around taking in the atmosphere.  Of that era I would say Discs of Tron was something of a favorite because it had great art and sound design. It was awesome. 

Those old arcade games were huge wooden cabinets, and they were sometimes really deep, meaning the video screen sometimes would be seated way back in there or sometimes the cabinets were huge boxes you would climb inside of. Now that I think about it they were like a precursor to oculus or something because you were physically immersed the gameplay. 

Also the usual 1980s and 90s suspects like Dragon’s Lair, Spy Hunter, Shooting Master, Rampage..  Too many to name. 

For console games I loved Resident Evil 1 and 2, Metal Gear Solid, Twisted Metal 2, and of course Halo, which really blew my mind.  Nearly every game I love has an immersive quality to it which I guess is why they resonated with me so strongly. 

Having created iconic sounds, most notably the clicker sound from The Last of Us, can you talk to us about the process taken to engineer these kinds of distinctive sounds?

So, we were told the direction of the characters and that they would be blind and have to echolocate. My audio lead, Phil Kovats, created something for the teaser trailer that was kind of pointing in the direction of some of the behavior. We took a couple of months on it. I was trying to come up with something that not only worked as an echolocation click and something that would be believable coming from somebody's mouth but also something that would be interesting and aesthetically pleasing. We wanted to make the echolocation factor part of this creature so I think we asked an outside vendor to see if they could give us some ideas because we didn't know who would be designing it yet and they sent us back a variety of things. One of the things they sent back was a mouth sound. It wasn't the click but there was kind of a wet lip smack, and when I heard that it just triggered some ideas and then I just jumped in.

I had recorded Phil Kovats, my audio lead, doing a kind of dry throat sound and then I got those little throat sounds and I edited them so that they would click. We still hadn't found the screech element yet and I had worked with this one voice artist named Misty Lee on a game called Soul Sacrifice for the Playstation Vita. She'd done really great so we brought her in, and we asked her if she could do any kind of high-pitched screeches. She just ripped into it, sounding like an evil dolphin, I guess. We knew that was it. We told her to keep going, give us more, and she did. It was great because when she would run out of air she would do a kind of exhale and that added a female voice element to the sound effect of the screech. That added so much more to it. It was a really chilling kind of effect.

2013 launch trailer of The last of us for Playstion 3

The one thing we always wanted to remember when we were making these sounds was to sound authentic. When I was directing all the voice actors for the infected I reminded them they look like monsters but they were people. You have to find some empathy with them to be able to bring out the human emotion that they're going through. Imagine it's a fever dream. I think I told one actor ‘the last thing you remember is you were supposed to go pick up your kids from soccer practice and now your body's being controlled and you can't stop chasing these people.’ We went really dark, but it was so satisfying because the actors really loved it. It was so fun directing that. I got to play one of the infected too. 

The Last of Us’s TV iteration has seen wonderful reviews, but you often find that isn’t the case and these things usually aren’t well received. Why do you think it’s so hard to transport the same feeling of a video game into other mediums?

I think it all comes down to the game design. The Last of Us was designed to be a linear narrative with solid characters and a really moving story. Inside of that story you got to craft weapons and kill clickers but the story was first and was already fleshed out and ready to go. If a game has a strong story to begin with, in my mind, it shouldn't be hard to make the jump to a long-form medium like television show or film. I mean, imagine The Stanley Parable for example. I can't imagine that being a movie because, well, if you’ve played it, you’ll know what I mean. Actually now that I think of it maybe David Lynch could make a great Stanley Parable movie.

You also created the incredibly iconic sound of Trico from The Last Guardian. Having created such a beloved character's sound, could you tell us a little bit about the inspiration behind this and the process you went through to get the final outcome?

Because Trico was the star of the game we had to have every vocalized emotion imaginable: anger, sadness, sneezes, snores, vomits - every shade of personality,  we needed it. As it is, creature vocalizations can be particularly challenging, especially mythological or fantasy creatures because, as you know, they don’t exist so, we can't just go to a zoo to record material - yet we still have to make them come alive, emote, and be believable.  So, often we have to completely fabricate the voice out of bits of animal recordings, big cat growls or even some inorganic things like bowed plastic or metal. Now most folks who design creatures will often find that it’s difficult to make all of these layers “glue together” and sound like a single voice. This was one of the biggest problems I faced with Trico. 

While researching, I happened upon a video of Randy Tom, the sound designer for ‘How to Train Your Dragon’, in which he talked about how he'll take something like a tiger growl and then the moan of a bear and mix them together, but it still needs some kind of emotive sound to join it together, so he will use his own voice to bridge that gap. I thought how great of an idea this was so I started going through all the scenes using my voice for everything and I found that not only did that give me great sound coverage but it also helped with outlining the emotional arc I needed throughout every animation. After this step I would then creep in the sounds of bears and otters and bowed plastic and all that stuff and fill it out. To my relief, It worked really well and once that happened I was just like ‘finally!’.

The last Guardian launch trailer in 2017

So it's your actual voice behind Trico?

I mean, now when I say that people might think that it was me screaming and roaring, but I’m basically the “glue”. My voice is what's grounding it, but there are a lot of other things such as tigers, otters, bears, dogs- even the sound of a bowed plastic Starbucks lid. It sounds really silly, but it worked.

We've seen you talk about using a sugar packet to create a sound, but out of all the sounds you've made what's the strangest method that you've used?

I was working on God of War 3 and wanted to make some new chain sounds for Kratos’ blades. I remembered a colleague had mentioned previously how chains have a lot of high frequencies which can sound unpleasant, and that coating them in motor oil would dull this harshness, making them easier to use in a sound mix. I decided against using toxic and messy motor oil and bought a bunch of off-brand chocolate syrup at a nearby supermarket to see if I could get the same effect. I poured all this syrup in a big bowl and dipped the chains in it.

I started performing different movements in front of the microphone but I just couldn’t get the sound that I had expected- a failed experiment. Defeated, I wiped the chocolate off the chain and when I did I pulled it through my hand and got this really disgusting slithery sound - really wet and gross. And I'm like ‘okay, I don't know what I'm going to use this for, but I need to record this right now.’ I got a lot of great sounds from that session and they ended up being used in one of the spider-man games for Scorpion’s tail. It was the perfect combination of organic wetness mixed with metallic technology. Sometimes the best sounds come from the least expected sources. 

Games are becoming more immersive, with sound being an ever-increasing factor in this. In your opinion, what's the most crucial aspect of video game sounds to get right?

Personally, I think that creating sounds that fit within the context of the story being told is the most important thing. I am less concerned if a sound is quote-unquote good. For me, the real question is: does it compliment the game design? It seems intuitive. I think there's a balance that we have to make between pushing the boundaries on design and keeping it within the limitations of what the game requires.

Imagine Joel in The Last of Us punching someone and it sounds as big as Indiana Jones punching a Nazi. Now, Indiana Jones punching a Nazi is a great sound. It's one of my favourite sounds ever made, but it would sound completely ridiculous in The Last of Us. It's all about context. it's all about what the game wants.

Epic series of punches from Indian Jones

Speaking of immersion, you have worked on numerous titles which are known to be some of the best world-building in gaming; Last Guardian, the most recent God of War, Shadow of the Colossus, and that's just to name a few. How do you go about taking these different universes and orchestrating certain sounds that accurately reflect the world in which they are placed?

It's a combination of the game design mixed with the director's vision of the game. That's what tells us how to move forward with sound. I mentioned Last of Us and the grittiness of it and how it's not over the top, not Hollywood. Instead, it's really gritty and lived in. There's an emotional weight to that game that's not only conveyed through the story's subject matter but in the level design: all the empty burned-out buildings, dirty flooded hotel lobbies, and things like that. It's all telling the story of this tragic event that's happened to humanity, so there's a lot of subtext there to play with. Sound can come in and do what we like to call ‘see a see a dog hear a dog’ - we can be very literal, but our job is to not only cut what we're being shown but make sounds in a way that supports that emotional subtext.

You listen to games like Shadow of the Colossus and it's very lonely. Big giant sounds happen and then there's just wind. You wander out there all by yourself in this strange demonic fantasy world where you have to fight these giant creatures and there's an overwhelming sense of loneliness that's built into the design. That's built into the story first. The sound also needs to help sell that part. We're doing that all the time with sound.

Ambience sound from Shadow of the Colossus

We are noticing a shift in the industry recently that is putting an even greater focus on story and narratives – Is this affecting the importance of sound design? And if so, how?

Sound is only as good as the story. Well actually, let me rephrase that. Sound is there to accompany the story and wherever the story goes sound will follow. I don't see sound needing to do anything beyond what the story needs. I can’t envision how sound would be more or less important in the future. I think sound would always be as important as it always was. I do think with more people being film minded about games and about that sort of crossover happening, I think that might inform game developers of the importance of sound. Once you start making games that look like movies the bar for sound goes way up. So, yeah, I think with the current trajectory of design, people already have their expectations built in that sound needs to be better and better because it's becoming more like film.

As a sound designer living in Tokyo, how do you find the city and the culture inspires you in your work?

Well, spend any time here and you quickly realize that Japan is a very sound-oriented culture. For example, there are chimes for everything. There are elevator chimes, train chimes, there’s the 5 o’clock chime that tells kids it's time to go home, and there's a chime that plays when your bathtub is ready. Not just little “dings” either but little aesthetically pleasing and informative melodies. Sound is utilized as an everyday means of communication which is something I really love.

Since being here, what are some of your favourite hotspots for music or sound? 

For music, definitely Beat Cafe in Shibuya. I've been able to learn so much about music there from listening to Katoman, the bartender. His playlists are always great. I've found so many new bands through him and had so many great conversations about music, and of course, just being at that bar you meet so many creative people - musicians and artists. I love the energy there. It’s very inspiring.

Some of our personal favourite games stem from Japan such as Bloodborne, Dark Souls, Final Fantasy, and many more, all of which have outstanding sound design. What do you think it is about Japanese titles, especially that makes them so incredible in this field?

This is my theory, but I think the fact that their language is so rich with onomatopoeia that it gives Japanese designers a unique perspective on how to hear and describe a sound based on its syllabic components. Ask your average english speaker to mimic the sound of a glass window breaking. They're likely to try to imitate the actual sound with an aspirated “Psshhhhhhh!!!!” But ask a Japanese person and they will give you a word like “Ga-shan!”, which when you think about it perfectly describes the action of breaking glass. It comes so naturally to them that I’ve often heard Japanese people invent their own clever onomatopoeia to describe sounds for situations where the normal words won’t suffice. It’s kinda brilliant.

Another strong point is how they view the purpose of sound in a game. I read an interview with a designer from Capcom who said that, basically, the Japanese way of sound is first and foremost, informative. Like the above example they use sound to telegraph meaning the same way they use words to express ideas. I think this is also why so many japanese games have such memorable one shot sounds. Things only happen for a reason because it's like speaking. I find it fascinating. It's very powerful and it's a real insight into the Japanese mind about sound and communication.

In your opinion what is one masterpiece of sound design in gaming that stands above all else?

There are too many classics for me to choose only one, but the “noticed” sound in Metal Gear Solid comes to mind. It’s a real standout for me. Another that might seem like an odd choice is Pac-Man- which still gives me chills and fills me with the same excitement I felt as a kid first hearing it. As for modern games, I’ve been in love with the sounds of Red Dead Redemption 2. The inventory UI,the horses with all the leather and tack, the lush backgrounds, the guns, the sound it makes when you use your “dead-eye” focus. I could really go on and on because I think that game is a real masterpiece. In fact, between me and another sound designer friend I play with online, one of our favorites is the sound of simply picking herbs and vegetables- It's perfect really.

Iconic Exclamation Point sound effect from Metal Gear Solid

Amazing 27 minutes horse riding in Red Dead Redemption 2

Has there been any game you have worked on that you feel particularly connected to?

Definitely the Last Guardian. Most of the sounds were made from recordings of our family dogs, especially Sadie, our black lab. She's no longer with us but her growls and snarls have been featured in a bunch of games- the explosions in Uncharted 2, the fires in Uncharted 3, and obviously she also played a major role in bringing Trico to life. When the game was finally released, I was overwhelmed by the positive responses from the fans, many of whom were pet owners themselves. I designed those vocals with a lot of emotion that I myself have experienced with my own pets. I think that's why people who played the game were so touched by the performance because they were able to see their own cat or dog in Trico’s mannerisms and cries. Being able to connect with the players simply through sounds on that deep of a level was a truly magical experience.

Family dogs and props for the sound design of The Last Guardian

The Last of Us was also a special one for me. Not only was it a great game to work on but the opportunity to be able to do so with some of my best friends made it even more special. We had so much fun with that game. I wrote on Twitter the other day that not enough has been said about the laughs and the jokes that the sound department had. I'm so thankful I got to work on that game with those people. They're the best. They're some of the best people in my life. That's what makes it special. 

How do you see sound design becoming even more important as time goes on and games become even more lifelike than they are already? In what ways do you think sound could be elevated even higher?

I think as the games have become more advanced, the awareness and expectations have risen from both the developers and the players. I expect it to keep rising. Keep doing what it's doing: putting the player in the middle of a great story.. I think now that we're getting into things like Atmos and ambisonics it's getting way more immersive. Where can it go from here? Let’s watch and see.

Finally, if sabukaru was a sound what would we sound like?

Like a million strong zeros being cracked open on a Friday night.

Thank you so much for your time! And see you at Beat cafe soon!

Text and Interview by Joe Goodwin